Hey Jesus Culture! Jesus is not a chick.

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9 Responses to Hey Jesus Culture! Jesus is not a chick.

  1. BJ says:

    How on earth can someone who calls himself a Christian make fun of other Christians for singing about their love for God? Maybe Todd Friel has had enough of God. Maybe he doesn’t love God. I can’t think of any other reason, except perhaps a hypocritical sensationalist longing for ratings, that he would blast a song that has put into words the longing, love and desire, of so many Christians for more of God.

    • David G says:

      Todd’s got an exalted view of God and thats why he’s ticked off by the use of boyfriend/girlfriend terminology – Something that shouldnt be applied to any member of the Godhead. This demonstrates a profound lack of understanding the concept of a sovereign, righteous God. Too much praise and worship music is all about us rather than about God. Too much praise and worship music is little more than a gig masquerading as worship, where the band gets more glory than God. Check out the thousands of dollars these guys are charging per performance. I know of one such band who recently charged $35.000 for a two hour spot ! Nothing more than the modern version of the money changers. If Jesus walked into any of these gigs, he would be turning over the tables in the same way as he did in the temple. Such was his anger at the way the house of God was being turned into a house of thieves. I think Todd hit the nail on the head, and furthermore, he explained why.

      • Further to the below comment, I don’t think you can comment on where the heart of these bands is at. After all, isn’t that the only thing that matters?

        If you turn up to a Jesus Culture event expecting a show, that’s what you’ll get. But if you turn up expecting to encounter God, I believe that’s what you get as well. (Wherever two or more are gathered in my name…)

        The terminology of the bible is speaking of the deepest most profound love possible. All that is good is from God. God is love. Why is expressing love with a language that is deeply emotional (something good that God has created) a bad thing?

      • D.Gowers says:

        Hey Josh, thanks for the comments. To answer the first part: No,’ where their heart’ is NOT the only thing that matters. Every religion, cult and sect is full of sincere hearts. Its more a matter of biblical truth, so we cant really use sincerity as a reliable gauge – Even among christians. We dont create our own truth…..unless your part of the relativistic emergent church!!

        Ask yourself the following questions, honestly:
        – Is there any biblical precedent for charging brothers/sisters-in-Christ money for the worship of our God?
        – Would the following affect your worship at all?
        – If the stage lighting/strobes/lasers/smoke machines were turned off?
        – If the normal theatre lights were turned up?
        – If the worship band was middle aged?
        – If the hipster clothes were changed to something less cool?
        – If the majority audience were not teens/young adult?
        – If the Fender Strats, Les Pauls, Drum kits, synths were removed?
        – If the amplification system was turned down so low that you could actually hear the voices of the audience worshipping their Lord?
        – If the music and lyrics werent trance-like and repetative?
        – If the band sang the song through just ONCE?

        Truth is Josh, Jesus Culture were borne out of the heretical ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ movement from Redding, California led by Bill Johnsson, (one of those self-appointed apostle/prophets who tried to get that conman Todd Bentley restored to the ministry)
        Its encouraging to see a young guy like you getting fired up for God, but for your own sake and for the Lords sake, please be careful what’s actually getting you ‘fired up’.

        Search the scriptures for yourself and dont just go searching for the next spiritual high. Remember this: Real discernment is not so much a matter of whats right and whats wrong…It’s more a matter of what’s right and whats ALMOST RIGHT. Pretty scary thought!

        May we both keep striving for the truth..

      • My first point wasn’t addressing lyrical content, I’m talking about how you’re trying to argue that Jesus culture are just in it for the money. I don’t think that’s fair to say as they have to feed families and pay bills etc. More on that later.

        I agree that lyrical content is absolutely important in worship. And I see no problem with Jesus culture lyrically. Song of Songs and numerous other places reveal God as the bridegroom and us as his bride. To say a bride is in love with her husband-to-be is not untruthful or heretical, therefore we can use the language a bride would have for her bridegroom when describing God.

        To address the issue of money better:

        Yes, if a worker is skilled (or a musician) then he deserves his due wages. The Jesus culture musicians could be making a lot more money than they do for their work. Should a pastor also never be paid for his work?

        People aren’t paying to worship God – no one is saying you MUST see jesus culture in order to worship. People are paying to support a ministry that has helped them. Have you ever paid for a worship cd? Should they be free too?

        When I see amazing lighting, it doesn’t just entertain me. It makes me see beauty inside light, how the colours ignite together, and how strobes can create emotion inside me. The result is that I worship the creator of light. If I am a non-Christian, I assume that to be the lighting technician. But as a Christian, I know that to be God. It fuels my worship, not distracts it.

        If the sound was quieter, I might be inspired by those singing around me, but as a weak singer I’m more likely to sing quieter and be more self-conscious of my own voice and less focused on God. Also, the bible tells me to make joyful, loud noises to God. As a sound technician, there are a number of reasons why louder music sounds clearer and better to the ears (and this lets me focus less on the sound and more on God) but I won’t go into that now.

        The worship band being young doesn’t affect me at all, though I think that there comes a time where you are older and less creative, and I’ve seen many humble musicians step aside to let the next generation of leaders take their place and learn how to play music to an excellent standard. When we bring worship, it should be the most excellent possible.

        Trance-like lyrics are found in the bible! All through the psalms and even genesis 1 (…and it was good… And it was good…) There are choruses in the bible and repetition is known to let truth sink in.

        Everything I’ve said until now has been personal preference – you are allowed to disagree. But what you can’t say is that the ‘truth’ is that Jesus culture are a heretical movement. They allow people to engage in worship with a creator, Heavenly Father that deeply loves each one of us more than we could imagine. People have always used singing as a way of describing something bigger than we can say in words.

        There may be a focus too much on feelings, but I don’t doubt that they know the absolute truth of Christ’s sacrifice and they are working to make it known in a way that young people engage with. Let them evangelise and let the judgement of its worth be down to God (and not down to worthless Christian tv shows). they have to give an account before Him for it, not to you.

      • sarahmax8 says:

        David G, You APPEAR to be very full of pride & judgmentalism to sit there & pass judgement on ten’s of thousands of people worshipping God, & maybe you’re ignorant as to how business places, arenas, concert halls, etc. get booked to have concert performances or church meetings or debates or political events, but it cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to book any kind of an auditorium, any place, in any city in the world; thousand dollars have to be paid up front, so that’s why admission is charged. There are a lot of ignorant statements here by Todd & others, very ignorant! AND, before God, VERY dangerously judgmental, because you are ALL placing yourselves in the judgment seat of God & ONLY God has that place in Christ Jesus the Lord.

  2. BJ says:

    “Todd’s got an exalted view of God and thats why he’s ticked off by the use of boyfriend/girlfriend terminology – Something that shouldnt be applied to any member of the Godhead.”

    So lets just get rid of a good chunk of the Psalms, a few chapters in Isaiah and Ezekiel, everywhere in the New Testament that talks of Jesus as the groom and, of course all of Song of Solomon. All these scriptures must be unbiblical, right?

    “Too much praise and worship music is all about us rather than about God.”

    Too many of the Psalms must be all about us rather than God, too. Right? Almost everyone of them is all about the good things God has done for the Psalmist or the rough time the Psalmist is going through. How dare we imitate those same refrains in modern worship.

    “one such band…”

    Means nothing without specifics, context, and verification.

  3. maybetomorrow says:

    Todd doesn’t seem to have ever had ANY sort of life changing experience with Jesus and appears to look upon the Father as some far off distant GOD who really doesn’t have time to get to know his children in a real and personal way. I have NEVER seen his eyes light up when he talks about Jesus. Someone who REALLY KNOWS Jesus can’t help but be almost giddy when talking about him. I would much rather KNOW GOD than KNOW OF God. He is my Papa or Abba Father. He is NOT some distant and cold father that I suspect Todd’s vision of him is. Much of his sad commentary on JC and others like them reflects John MaCarthur’s views too. John is about as cold and judgemental as anyone can be. In Jesus, there is freedom…………I just don’t sense that in either of these guys ministries.

  4. W.Birch says:

    I find many of the remarks calling Todd and D Gowers judgements rather hypocritical considering, by your implied definition of judgement that you are in fact doing some judging yourselves. I consider both a John MacArthur and Todd Friel Brothers in Christ, they certainly bear the fruits of salvation, and they are defending Biblical truth. On the other hand people are defending a human made movement and music that far better resembles and pays tribute to secular music in form and function. Defend the Bib,e and truth not your preferences. All our preferences should be in submission to the Word, and I have never seen the word twisted so and contorted in this regard as I ha e seen in these posts. I actually wonder how many people have read the bible cover to cover, because the justifications used, to any one who has done study on both old and New Testaments would be aware of the proper contexts. I suggest daily reading of your bibles instead of trying to having one foot in the world and one in heaven. Read revelations 3:16. This is lukewarm behaviour.

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